Every year between 2015 and 2024, at least one Apple executive agreed to be interviewed by Daring Fireball’s John Gruber for a special WWDC episode of his podcast, The Talk Show. Last year, for example, Apple’s software engineering chief Craig Federighi, marketing chief Greg Joswiak, and top AI researcher John Giannandrea joined Gruber on stage at the California Theatre in San Jose to discuss Apple Intelligence and more.

Apple’s response to Gruber’s interview request (basically) Apple’s response to Gruber’s interview request (basically)

That decade-long tradition abruptly came to an end last month , when Apple declined Gruber’s invitation to speak for this year’s special episode.

A few months prior to that, Gruber published a blog post that was heavily critical of Apple. In that piece, the well-known Apple pundit said that the company “pitched a story that wasn’t true” at WWDC 2024, when it previewed a more personalized Siri that was not close to being ready and is now delayed. He said that the situation damaged Apple’s credibility, and he expressed concern that it could be a sign of bigger problems inside the company.

Unsurprisingly, Apple did not like the commentary.

In the latest episode of the Channels podcast, Gruber told Business Insider’s Peter Kafka that Apple was “not happy” about the blog post and felt it was unfair.

However, Gruber said Apple’s absence was actually a net positive for him.

“I’m not trying to lack humility here — but I feel them deciding not to do my show this year is a total win for me and was a huge loss for them,” he said.

Why does he believe that?

“I think it asserts my independence,” he argued. “And I think more than making me look good, I think it makes them look bad.”

For his WWDC 2025 episode, Gruber ended up interviewing The Wall Street Journal’s Joanna Stern and The Verge’s Nilay Patel.