The Interview: Mark Rutte, the Head of NATO, Thinks President Trump ‘Deserves All the Praise’ – The New York Times
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The Interview: Mark Rutte, the Head of NATO, Thinks President Trump ‘Deserves All the Praise’
The U.S. has had up to 100,000 troops stationed across Europe as part of its NATO commitments. But the Trump administration is now saying that it is going to redeploy some of those to other parts of the world. There is no talk at this moment of a drawdown. What the United States expects the Europeans to do is to take care of their own defense at a larger scale than we do currently, he says. The news is that the Europeans have now cobbled together $35 billion in this year to deliver military aid to Ukraine, but we are not there yet, he adds. The only one who started discussions with Putin is the one who was able to break the deadlock with the American president, he writes. It’s a step-by-step process, we’ve now had two. talks in Istanbul, where the Ukrainians sent a very senior team, and unfortunately the Russians sent this historian to take it very seriously, not so seriously that it was taken seriously.
It’s interesting that you talk about Trump’s foreign-policy team and their understanding and commitment to NATO’s security. The U.S. has had up to 100,000 troops stationed across Europe as part of its NATO commitments, including about 20,000 that President Biden deployed after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. But the Trump administration is now saying that it is going to redeploy some of those to other parts of the world. Have you been told what that drawdown will look like? There is no talk at this moment of a drawdown. What we know is that Europeans have to spend more. That’s what we are doing. When it comes to the troop numbers, we have all agreed there should be no capability gaps in Europe. Whatever needs to happen in the future to pivot more toward Asia has to be done in a way that indeed those capability gaps are not there, that there are no surprises. This is exactly the way I’m discussing this with the American administration.
President Emmanuel Macron of France said it would be nice to know what the timeline is for reductions, which says to me that America’s greatest European allies do not have a sense of when this is happening and what the number will look like. Do you have a sense of when this is happening and what the number would look like? Well, I have a sense of the fact that we all agree that NATO is integral. Let’s not forget, the only time Article 5 was ever triggered was a day after 9/11, when now Lord Robertson, the then-secretary general, declared an Article 5 situation because of the attack —
Secretary General, what I’m asking here is: You say that the commitment is ironclad, and yet what we are seeing, while a war is raging with a resurgent Russia on Europe’s doorstep, is the United States pulling back from Europe. I really have to correct you. The United States is not pulling away from Europe. What the United States expects the Europeans to do is to take care of their own defense at a larger scale than we do currently, which is only logical. Let me assure you that all the plans we have, part of those plans is that Europeans gradually — and this is a shift — take more of the burden for the defense of this part of NATO territory from the U.S., so that the U.S. can therefore pivot more toward Asia, toward the Indo-Pacific, as the U.S. should. This is also in our European interest, because we know that China and North Korea are very much involved in this war effort in Ukraine. So this is all interconnected.
On Ukraine, one place where NATO and the U.S. seem to diverge is on the question of Putin’s actual appetite for peace talks. Both Trump and Secretary of State Marco Rubio made comments very recently suggesting that they believe talks are still on the table. A senior NATO official, on the other hand, said that “we continue to doubt that Russia has any interest in meaningful negotiations.” Where do you stand on this? With the risk that I’m again praising President Trump: He is the one who broke the deadlock with Putin. When he became president in January, he started these discussions with Putin, and he was the only one who was able to do this. This had to happen. A direct dialogue between the American president and the president of the Russian Federation. Then, of course, this is a step-by-step process. We’ve now had two rounds of peace talks in Istanbul, where the Ukrainians sent a very senior team, took it very seriously, and unfortunately the Russians sent this historian not to be taken so seriously. So, we are not there yet, and that means that in the meantime you have to make sure that Ukraine has what it needs to stay in the fight. The good news is that the Europeans have now cobbled together $35 billion in military aid this year to deliver to Ukraine, which is more than last year.
Inside NATO chief Mark Rutte’s charm offensive on Trump that shocked as much as it delivered
Mark Rutte, the former Dutch prime minister, is no stranger to dealings with Trump. He deployed his easy charm in several visits to Washington, DC, during Trump’s first term. Rutte waded through many observers’ incredulity at his kowtowing tone. But as the summit crescendoed, there was a growing sense he may have pulled off a diplomatic masterstroke. The summit is largely pre-ordained, after the US president skipped the G7 summit earlier this month, who skipped the ending of the summit for Trump, who was absent from The Hague after a plane crash in Turkey. The whole summit was sculpted around Trump, the schedule featured a single session for leaders; experts have suggested this was pre-destined after Trump was absent, who missed a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Volodyr Zelensky, who also missed the summit, and a photo op with Rutte. The Dutchman didn’t spare praise for Trump”s strikes on Iran – a conflict technically outside the NATO wheelhouse.
It must have been the last thing NATO’s chief needed.
Late Tuesday, on the eve of a crucial summit that would lock in a generational investment in NATO’s defense, Donald Trump’s Truth Social account pinged with a single photo: a gushing message signed “Mark Rutte,” written in a carbon-copy Trump style and overflowing with sycophantic praise for the US president.
“You are flying into another big success in the Hague this evening,” Rutte’s message read.
“Europe is going to pay in a BIG way, as they should, and it will be your win,” he continued.
“You will achieve something NO American president in decades could get done.”
While the diplomatic world has bent toward many norms of the Trump White House, this was extreme.
Doubling down on the comments the following day, saying Trump deserved credit for his actions on Iran and NATO, Rutte waded through many observers’ incredulity at his kowtowing tone. But as the summit crescendoed, there was a growing sense he may have pulled off a diplomatic masterstroke.
Bromance
Rutte, the former Dutch prime minister, is no stranger to dealings with Trump, having deployed his easy charm in several visits to Washington, DC, during Trump’s first term.
Exuding an easygoing, relaxed image – his signature boyish grin never far from his face – Rutte’s charm offensive echoes that of other NATO leaders.
French President Emmanuel Macron has charted up a boisterous bromance with Trump; Finnish President Alex Stubb bonded with him over rounds of golf, and Italian far-right Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has won a reputation as something of Trump whisperer: She’s a “fantastic woman,” in Trump’s words.
Rutte’s message – signed with his surname – perhaps spoke of a less pally relationship. So did one of Trump’s reactions Wednesday: “I think he likes me. If he doesn’t, I’ll let you know. I’ll come back and I’ll hit him hard,” Trump announced in his Wednesday news conference.
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte speaks at a news conference during the summit on Wednesday. Nicolas Tucat/AFP/Getty Images
But in The Hague, Rutte seemed ready to do anything to burnish the US president’s ego and save him face.
Trump’s decision to attack Iran’s nuclear program was “extremely impressive,” the NATO chief told Trump. “The signal it sends to the rest of the world that this president, when it comes to it, yes, he is a man of peace, but if necessary, he is willing to use strength.”
Time and again around the summit, Rutte’s interjections soothed Trump’s passage – softening his landing after a fiery “f**k” at Iran and Israel’s latest exchange of missiles lit up international headlines.
Rutte’s response: a jokey aside in front of the world’s cameras.
“Daddy has to sometimes use strong language,” he said beside Trump, after the US president used the analogy of two children fighting to describe the conflict between Iran and Israel.
Rutte later said he wasn’t referring to Trump as “daddy” but was merely using a metaphor.
The Dutchman didn’t spare praise for Trump’s strikes on Iran – a conflict technically outside the NATO wheelhouse – as the president railed against suggestions in a leaked government assessment that undercut his claim the strikes “obliterated” parts of Iran’s nuclear program.
“The secretary general knows that personal relationships go a long way with this administration,” Torrey Taussig, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and a former NATO policy adviser at the Pentagon, told CNN.
“I do think this is a kind of hold-your-nose moment. Ensure there are no fireworks in The Hague. Get a good photo op and go home,” she added.
Beyond Rutte, the whole summit was sculpted around Trump.
Slimmed down, the schedule featured a single session for leaders; experts have suggested this was for Trump, who earlier this month skipped the ending of the G7 summit, missing a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Of course, the summit result is largely pre-ordained, after rounds of pre-negotiations to ensure the leaders had to only rubber-stamp declarations.
Ukraine’s war with Russia – by far the most pressing issue on NATO’s agenda – was also excised from the summit’s final declaration, the first time it has been missing since Russian President Vladimir Putin’s full invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
Even the crown jewel of the gathering, the promise to spend 5% of gross domestic product on defense (split into core defense requirements and 1.5% on defense-related spending by 2035), was a Trump-branded product.
Trump takes questions during a news conference following the summit Wednesday. Omar Havana/Getty Images
Back in January, Trump lofted the idea of a 5% spending target for NATO members, a figure that hadn’t been given serious consideration before, as members limped towards 2%.
“They can all afford it. They’re at 2% but they should be at 5%,” he told journalists.
The ends, not the means
But Rutte may have had the last laugh.
The summit was, by all accounts, a win for NATO: Members unanimously agreed to boost spendings to post-Cold War highs – and thanked Trump for it.
“In diplomacy, you try to get a goal and an aim, and what did we achieve here? We achieved an historic result, where NATO went back to its roots of collective defense,” Finland’s Stubb told CNN on the sidelines of the summit.
Spain was a notable exception, pushing for softened language that may have left a loophole for the Iberian nation to meet its responsibilities for NATO military capabilities without having to spend 5% of GDP. (The final summit declaration signed by NATO members referred only to “allies” in its clauses on spending, while others spoke of commitments “we” will make.)
Leaders – led, of course, by Rutte – singled out Trump as the sole pressure responsible for finally corralling NATO allies to previously unthinkable spending targets.
Boosted defense spending “is the success of President Donald Trump,” Polish President Andrzej Duda told journalists at the summit.
“Without the leadership of Donald Trump, it would be impossible,” he added.
His Lithuanian counterpart suggested a new motto for the alliance, “Make NATO great again,” as he welcomed the pressure Trump had levied on stingy allies.
“I’m up for all the pressure we can get,” Lithuanian Defense Minister Dovile Sakaliene told CNN. Smaller nations on the front lines with Russia were buoyed by an alliance-wide commitment to meeting spending levels they had largely led the charge on.
US President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky shake hands as they attend a meeting on the sidelines of the summit Wednesday. Ukrainian Presidential Press Service/Reuters
Everybody wins
One Western European official ahead of the summit shared fears with CNN the summit would be marred by another diplomatic spat around Trump.
But in public, comment on Rutte’s messaging to Trump was largely off limits, with leaders waving off or swerving around questions.
Finland’s president wouldn’t be drawn on the NATO secretary general’s messages, but he said, however, “Diplomacy has so many different forms.”
Casualties – particularly from diplomatic skirmishes with Trump – were fewer than expected. Only Spain caught flak from the US president over its foot-dragging over the 5% GDP spend.
“It’s terrible what they’ve done,” Trump said, threatening to use trade talks to force Madrid into line. “We’re going to make them pay twice as much,” he said.
Even Zelensky – who has had a turbulent relationship with Trump – came away with wins.
While he stopped short of committing further US aid to Ukraine, Trump suggested Kyiv may see future Patriot missile system deliveries from the United States – and he slammed Putin as “misguided,” conceding the Russian leader may have territorial designs that extend further than Ukraine.
Finally, Trump’s own views on NATO – often a prickly subject for the famously transactional president – saw a reversal.
“These people really love their countries,” Trump said of the NATO leaders at his news conference concluding the NATO summit. “It’s not a rip-off, and we’re here to help them protect their country.”
“I came here because it was something I’m supposed to be doing,” he added, “but I left here a little bit different.”
How ‘Daddy’ talk and Trump and Rutte’s bromance stole the NATO spotlight
NATO agreed to a massive hike in defense spending at its annual summit on Wednesday. But it was the “bromance” between President Donald Trump and NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte that stole the spotlight. Rutte appeared to fawn over the U.S. president numerous times on Wednesday, both before and after the alliance issued its joint declaration announcing a defense spending hike to 5% of individual members’ GDPs by 2035. He said Trump “deserves all the praise” for getting allies to invest more in security after years of pressure. He also publicly repeated previously private comments made to Trump — which the president had posted on his Truth Social site — in which he congratulated him for his “decisive action in Iran” Rutte: “I think he is a man of strength … and peace … And I think exactly what I think this is what I want … this is exactly what this is about. It’s a question of taste” and that the Washington leader was “a good friend”
NATO made history this week, agreeing to a massive hike in defense spending at its annual summit on Wednesday — but it was the “bromance” between President Donald Trump and NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte that stole the spotlight. Rutte appeared to fawn over the U.S. president numerous times on Wednesday, both before and after the alliance issued its joint declaration announcing a defense spending hike to 5% of individual members’ GDPs by 2035. Rutte said Trump “deserves all the praise” for getting allies to invest more in security after years of pressure. “This would not have happened if you would not have been elected in 2016 and re-elected last year … so I want to thank you,” Rutte told Trump at the NATO summit in The Hague, Netherlands, further lauding the president as a “man of strength … and peace” and praising his “decisive” intervention in the Iran-Israel conflict. As Trump compared the Middle Eastern adversaries to “two kids in a school yard” who “fight like hell,” Rutte interjected, laughing: “And then daddy has to sometimes use strong language to get them to stop.”
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte speaks next to US President Donald Trump, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio and U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth during the NATO summit of heads of state and government on June 25, 2025 in The Hague, Netherlands. Pool | Getty Images News | Getty Images
Rutte also publicly repeated previously private comments made to Trump — which the president had posted on his Truth Social site — in which he congratulated the U.S. leader for his “decisive action in Iran, that was truly extraordinary, and something no one else dared to do.”
‘Daddy’ issues
There was no way that journalists were going to let Rutte get away with alluding to Trump as “Daddy” without further comment. As a press conference kicked off after the joint declaration, Sky News honed in on their relationship rather than on the post-summit communique. “The language that you have used when talking to Donald Trump has been notable because of its flattery. Today you called him ‘daddy,’ and you sent a text message to him that was gushing with praise,” Sky News’ Security and Defense Editor Deborah Haynes said, going on to question whether it wasn’t “a bit demeaning.”
US President Donald Trump (R) speaks with NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte as they attend the North Atlantic Council plenary meeting at the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) summit in The Hague on June 25, 2025. (Photo by Ludovic MARIN / POOL / AFP) (Photo by LUDOVIC MARIN/POOL/AFP via Getty Images) Ludovic Marin | Afp | Getty Images
Rutte, a seasoned diplomat known as a consensus builder during his extensive previous stint as the Dutch prime minister, was unrepentant, responding that it was “a question of taste” and that the Washington leader was “a good friend.” “Would you ever think that this would be the result of this summit if [Trump] would not have been re-elected president? Do you really think that the seven or eight countries who said ‘yes, somewhere in the 2030s we might meet the 2%’ [would have got there without Trump]? … So doesn’t he deserves some praise?” Rutte asked. He added, “When it comes to Iran, the fact that he took this decisive action, very targeted, to make sure that Iran would not be able to get his hands on a nuclear capability, I think he deserves all the praise.” Haynes later asked Trump the same question, in response to which the White House leader said that Rutte “likes me, I think he likes me, if he doesn’t I’ll let you know.” He added that the remark was “very affectionate.”
‘Predictable’ Trump
Trump had caused a stir on his way to the 2025 NATO summit, appearing to suggest that NATO’s Article 5 principle of mutual and collective defense was open to interpretation. Rutte spent a considerable amount of time at NATO’s various press conferences defending Trump and the U.S.’ commitment to the alliance. “I’ve now known for almost 10 years. He’s a good friend. I trust him,” Rutte said. “I think he is a man of strength, but also a man of peace … And I think this is exactly what you want the American President to do, provide that type of leadership. And so, I find him very predictable.”
Trump promises ‘irrefutable’ facts about Iran bombing
The administration has rubbished reports by both CNN and the New York Times that the damage to Iran’s nuclear facilities was not as severe as they had hoped. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth will address the public at 8am Thursday morning to provide ‘both interesting and irrefutable’ proof about the success of the mission. Trump said the purpose of the conference is to ‘fight for the Dignity of our Great American Pilots’
The administration has rubbished reports by both CNN and the New York Times that the damage to Iran’s nuclear facilities from Saturday night’s bombing was not as severe as they had hoped, while simultaneously demanding the person who leaked incomplete intel be jailed.
In a Truth Social post on Wednesday afternoon, Trump revealed Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth would address the public at 8am Thursday morning to provide ‘both interesting and irrefutable’ proof about the success of the mission.
Trump said the purpose of the conference is to ‘fight for the Dignity of our Great American Pilots.
‘These Patriots were very upset,’ he said. ‘After 36 hours of dangerously flying through Enemy Territory, they landed, they knew the Success was LEGENDARY, and then, two days later, they started reading Fake News by CNN and The Failing New York Times.
‘They felt terribly!’
Trump reminded them that the doubts about the success of the mission were ‘as usual, solely for the purpose of demeaning PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP.’
His comments come after the CIA confirmed Iran’s nuclear facilities suffered ‘severe damage’ after the devastating airstrikes Saturday night.
Trump had earlier suggested Hegseth’s title should be changed to the ‘Secretary of War’ given the deteriorating situation in the Middle East, and kicked off meetings at the NATO summit on Wednesday by comparing Saturday’s precision airstrikes to the two atomic bombings on Japan that ended World War II.
‘I don’t want to use an example of Hiroshima. I don’t want to use an example of Nagasaki. But that was essentially the same thing. That ended that war,’ he told reporters at The Hague.
Australia risks Trump rebuke by standing firm on military spend amid NATO increase
NATO countries, of which Australia is not a member, agreed to increase defence spending targets to 5 per cent of GDP. But Spain refused prompting Trump to threaten to punish the Iberian nation with a tougher trade deal. Defence Minister Richard Marles said Australia would decide its own spending levels to meet its own military needs. That risks drawing a rebuke from Trump, who made clear he expects allies to drastically step up to reduce their reliance on the US. Australia is also seeking to negotiate a reprieve from tariffs imposed by the US on imports, including a 50 per cent levy on steel and aluminium. Trump hails NATO uplift as ‘great victory’ and says additional funds will be spent on military hardware made in the U.S. The 32 allies’ brief communique added: “We reaffirm our ironclad commitment to collective defence as enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty” French President Emmanuel Macron raised the issue of the steep import tariffs threatened by Trump, and the damage they may do to transatlantic trade.
On the sidelines of the NATO summit in the Netherlands, Defence Minister Richard Marles said Australia would decide its own spending levels to meet its own military needs.
That risks drawing a rebuke from Trump, who made clear he expects allies to drastically step up to reduce their reliance on the US.
NATO countries, of which Australia is not a member, agreed to increase defence spending targets to 5 per cent of GDP.
However, Spain refused prompting Trump to threaten to punish the Iberian nation with a tougher trade deal.
Donald Trump has long pushed for NATO allies to spend more on defence. Source: AAP / ANP/Sipa USA “You know what we’re going to do? We’re negotiating with Spain on a trade deal and we’re going to make them pay twice as much,” he said.
“I think it’s terrible. You know, they (Spain) are doing very well … and that economy could be blown right out of the water when something bad happens,” Trump said, adding that Spain would get a tougher trade deal from the US than other European Union countries.
Australia is also seeking to negotiate a reprieve from tariffs imposed by the US on imports, including a 50 per cent levy on steel and aluminium.
‘That is fundamentally a matter for NATO’
Amid news of the defence-spending boost from NATO members, Marles maintained Australia would stick with its own defence spending process, which will see the nation’s share increase from two to 2.3 per cent by 2033/34.
“Look, obviously, a very significant decision has been made here in relation to European defence spending, and that is fundamentally a matter for NATO,” he said.
“We’ve gone through our own process of assessing our strategic landscape, assessing the threats that exist there, and the kind of defence force we need to build in order to meet those threats, to meet the strategic moment, and then to resource that.
“And what that has seen is the biggest peacetime increase in Australian Defence spending.
“Now that is a story which is, which is understood here and we’ll continue to assess what our needs are going forward. And as our prime minister has said, we will resource that.”
Marles did not speak directly with Trump, nor US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth, despite intensive efforts by government officials to tee up a first face-to-face meeting of an Australian minister with the US president.
Trump hails NATO uplift as ‘great victory ‘
In a five-point statement, NATO endorsed the higher defence spending goal — a response not only to Trump but also to Europeans’ fears that Russia poses a growing threat to their security following the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
The 32 allies’ brief communique added: “We reaffirm our ironclad commitment to collective defence as enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty — that an attack on one is an attack on all.”
Trump told a press conference that “we had a great victory here”, adding that he hoped that the additional funds would be spent on military hardware made in the US.
Asked to clarify his own stance on Article 5 after recent ambiguous comments, Trump said: “I stand with it. That’s why I’m here. If I didn’t stand with it, I wouldn’t be here.”
Trump had long demanded in no uncertain terms that other countries step up their spending to reduce NATO’s heavy reliance on the US
Despite an appearance of general agreement, French President Emmanuel Macron raised the issue of the steep import tariffs threatened by Trump, and the damage they may do to transatlantic trade, as a barrier to increased defence spending.
“We can’t say we are going to spend more and then, at the heart of NATO, launch a trade war,” Macron said, calling it “an aberration”. He said he had raised it several times with Trump.
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte, who hosted the summit in his home city of The Hague, said NATO would emerge as a ‘stronger, fairer and more lethal’ alliance.
The former Dutch prime minister said Trump deserved “all the praise” for getting NATO members to agree on raising defence spending.
The new spending target — to be achieved over the next 10 years — is a jump worth hundreds of billions of dollars a year from the current goal of 2 per cent of GDP, although it will be measured differently.
Countries pledged to spend 3.5 per cent of GDP on core defence — such as troops and weapons — and 1.5 per cent on broader defence-related measures such as cyber security, protecting pipelines and adapting roads and bridges to handle heavy military vehicles.
The additional spending will be a tall order for European nations, many of which have strained finances.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy had to settle for attending the pre-summit dinner on Tuesday evening rather than the main meeting on Wednesday, although he met Trump separately after the conference ended.
The Kremlin has accused NATO of being on a path of rampant militarisation and portraying Russia as a “fiend of hell” in order to justify its big increase in defence spending.