Tech journalist and podcaster Kara Swisher on Friday said that a victory for President Donald Trump in his very public fight with Tesla CEO Elon Musk won’t prevent the break-up spelling his doom anyway, because Musk is “angry” and unpredictable, and there’s no telling just how far he’ll go.

Swisher’s pyrrhic prediction was part of the long and mostly ebullient coverage of the Trump-Musk “break-up” on the Pivot podcast Friday with co-host Scott Galloway, during which the two reveled in the spiteful and “ugly” battle between the president and his ex-billionaire bestie.

As they discussed the implications and fallout, Swisher said “Donald Trump is going to prevail because he’s the president, right, ultimately,” but even so, “it’s finished for him.”

“I think it’s finished, because Elon is willing to go nuclear,” Swisher said. “He really is. He doesn’t have a problem with it.”

Swisher said other CEOs want to chew Trump out also, and that Musk doing so could now give them license to likewise “chip away” at Trump’s power, so that by 2026 he’ll be “finished.”

“I warned the Trump people, there’s also no telling what he could do,” she added. “You just don’t know where he’s going. He’s got means, he’s got motive, he’s angry. He’s, as you know, a petty person.

She referenced an earlier part of the discussion in which Galloway referred to Musk as a “toddler” drug addict, and said he could” just go right off the rails and take Trump with him.”

Later in the podcast, the “toddler” description came up again, as Swisher argued that Trump is much more the toddler between the two men.

On the subject of Musk ending Trump’s viability, Swisher added that Musk is “unexpected” and “a wild card.”

“Trump is somewhat reliably corrupt the way he is,” she said. “You never know what Elon’s gonna do, you just don’t.”

GALLOWAY: But it really is sort of a, the two, arguably the two most powerful men in the world squaring off in the high school cafeteria. What are your thoughts there? SWISHER: So which one would — I think Donald, look, Donald Trump is going to prevail because he’s the president, right, ultimately. GALLOWAY: Yeah, that’s right. SWISHER: But I think it’s finished for him. I think its finished. Because Elon is willing to go nuclear. He really is. He doesn’t have a problem with it. What you just said, interestingly enough, that CEOs all want to say this to Trump, right? They want to stop being pushed around. If he’s doing it, it will give permission to everybody else to start pushing back on Trump, I think. GALLOWAY: Oh, I don’t know because I think every CEO looks at a 14% decline in the stock in one day and thinks, I don’t control my board. I could get fired for this shit. I mean, Tesla shed $150 billion in value. SWISHER: But I mean that the idea that you can, if Elon’s doing it — like especially ones that are, you know, look, Jamie Dimon’s been critical. I think it’ll give people permission to be more critical of Trump and start to chip away at his power, you now? Because I’ve always thought that he’s in real trouble because of the trends and the polling and everything else, and by 2026 it’s finished for him. But now, this sort of, there’s no telling what — I warned the Trump people, there’s also no telling what he could do. Right? You just don’t know where he’s going. He’s got means, he’s got motive, he’s angry. He’s, as you know, a petty person. He’s got, as you discussed, a problem with some drugs. I think this guy could just go right off the rails and take Trump with him. Because he’s so affiliated with Trump, if you think about it, and he’s absolutely right. He helped get, he was the critical part of getting Trump elected, I think. GALLOWAY: Yeah, he may have in fact got him elected. But the thing is, and you’ve been more right than wrong on this. You predicted a while ago that this was gonna be the mother of all breakups at some point, and it’s happening. And now it seems obvious, but at the time, people weren’t predicting it and you did predict it. But here’s the thing. I think Trump has proven himself — we’re in a slow burn towards a, autocracy, and autocrats will sicc their Department of Justice on people, and he’s the president. And so if he wants to stick his DOJ on them, if he wants to fire up inspector generals to say, I have some real fears about his autonomous technology and we’re auditing Tesla’s tax returns, oh, and by the way, we, we have evidence that he was carrying a listed drug. I mean, this guy isn’t beyond… SWISHER: No, but now everything will be tainted, right? It’s just, it’ll be so obvious to people what he’s doing. And whether you like Elon or not, he still has a lot of fans too, right. Now his numbers were declining because of his affiliation with Trump, right, his numbers were going down and his, you know, he had just lost a lot because of the affiliation with Donald Trump. But, if he’s against Donald Trump, he’ll get different fans, right? You could see – it’s almost, oddly enough, it is like a wrestling match, right. And this is how Trump conducts everything, is, we’re in the middle of a wrestling match with one of those idiot narratives that they have there. Which is they’re throwing blows, they’re causing entertainment. But in this case, I, Elon can truly do a lot of damage to this man. And especially those who are so effusive about him, like Mike Johnson and others, right? He can pick them off one at a time, and Trump has to protect, right, in some ways. Trump can’t go nuclear on him in a similar way. Maybe he can. GALLOWAY: I think this is such a tough one to call. And I think if, if our biases are coming out here, I think what we’re discovering is you hate Trump more than Musk and I hate Musk more than Trump. SWISHER: No, I just think he’s unexpected, right? And so he’s a wild card. I don’t, I think he is, listen, I would do an interview with him in five seconds to talk about this. But I think that he is… Trump is somewhat reliably corrupt the way he is. You never know what Elon’s gonna do, you just don’t.

Watch the clip above via the Pivot podcast on YouTube.

In a plot twist straight out of a political soap opera, Elon Musk appears to be inching back toward former President Donald Trump, just days after publicly torching him online. Yes, you read that right. Last week, Elon Musk was calling for Trump’s impeachment and even floated the baseless claim that Trump’s name appeared in Epstein-related documents. Fast forward to this weekend, and the Tesla titan is practically waving a MAGA flag again. So, what happened?

As reported by CNN, cue the chaos in Los Angeles. ICE raids and immigration crackdowns ignited fiery protests across the city, the Donald Trump administration doubled down on its tough stance, and Elon Musk, known for his support of hardline immigration policies, couldn’t resist falling back in line. He started by scrubbing his most explosive X posts about Trump, including the impeachment call and that Epstein accusation. In their place? A subtle yet unmistakable pivot back to praise.

Musk threw up American flags on a post from Vice President JD Vance, declaring, “The president will not tolerate rioting and violence.” That was followed by a repost of Trump’s Truth Social jab at California Gov. Gavin Newsom and LA Mayor Karen Bass, demanding they “apologize to the people of Los Angeles” amid escalating unrest.

Image Source: NBC News/YouTube

Donald Trump Is Still Fighting With Elon Musk

To top it off, Musk chimed in with a simple “cool” to a clip of Vance saying, “if Elon chills out a little bit, everything will be fine.” And just like that, the tension between the world’s richest man and the most powerful Republican seemed to ease up, at least on the surface, but the drama isn’t over.

In true Musk fashion, he also fact-checked his own AI chatbot, Grok, after it seemingly confirmed a viral image where Musk allegedly clapped back at Stephen Miller with the post: “Just like I took your wife.” Musk fired back, “No, it’s fake ffs, I never posted this.”

Awkward much? Especially since Musk just re-followed Miller, Trump’s former top immigration advisor, after unfollowing him during last week’s digital meltdown. That move raised even more eyebrows given that Miller’s wife, Katie, left the White House to work for Musk, and the couple regularly partied with him off the clock.

Now? Katie’s staying silent, and White House aides are gossiping like it’s a season finale cliffhanger. Are the Millers still in Musk’s inner circle? Is the bromance with Trump back on? And what does this all mean for 2024?

Image Source: TED/YouTube

Elon Musk Takes Back His Trump Insults

Let’s not forget, Musk still isn’t 100% back in MAGA mode. He threw shade at Trump’s signature domestic policy proposal, the so-called “One Big, Beautiful Bill,” calling it a fiscal disaster. Nonpartisan groups agree it could pile trillions onto the national debt, even though the administration insists otherwise.

On Sunday, Musk doubled down on his dissent, replying “Correct” to a post claiming his spat with Trump is “neither a stunt nor a distraction.” He also reposted a Babylon Bee article that mocked Republicans for doing “the opposite of what everyone voted for them to do.” So yeah, the bromance isn’t fully healed. Think of it as a rocky situation: they might be texting again, but they’re not back to brunching at Mar-a-Lago just yet.

Tesla stock is starting to rebound, but it’s still not back to pre-fallout levels. Whether this fragile truce holds will depend on backroom deals, political maneuvering, and possibly Musk’s next impulsive tweet. Stay tuned, because in the saga of Trump and Musk, the only thing we can count on is chaos.

The Pentagon may be pivoting away from Elon Musk’s SpaceX following the almighty blowup between President Donald Trump and the world’s richest man earlier this week.

The fallout appears to be impacting the nation’s space program as the Trump administration looks toward another billionaire to replace Musk in the race to Mars.

Officials at NASA and the Pentagon quietly reached out to SpaceX’s competitors, urging them to accelerate development of alternative rockets and spacecraft.

Decisions appear to have been taken quickly after Musk made a defiant threat to pull SpaceX’s Dragon spacecraft, a lifeline to the International Space Station, after Trump first threatened to cancel SpaceX’s lucrative government contracts.

‘It turned really terrifying,’ one NASA official admitted to the Washington Post after initially finding the feud ‘entertaining.’

Although Musk eventually walked back his threat, the damage was done.

Officials from NASA and the Pentagon, already uneasy with their reliance on SpaceX, were rattled to the core.

SpaceX has become indispensable as it transports astronauts and cargo to the ISS, launches sensitive military satellites, and operates Starlink, the world’s largest satellite constellation.

Blue Origin’s New Glenn rocket lifts off from Launch Complex 36 at the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station, in January. The rocket has only flown to space once so far

The Pentagon appears to be contemplating pivoting away from Elon Musk ‘s SpaceX following the almighty blowup between Donald Trump and the world’s richest man earlier this week

The Crew Dragon spacecraft has been released on 16 crewed orbital flights. Of these, 11 were NASA missions and 5 were commercial missions

The flare-up served to remind officials of the risks of tying national interests to a mercurial billionaire.

‘When you realize that he’s willing to shut everything down just on an impulse … that kind of behavior and the dependence on him is dangerous,’ a former space agency official said.

NASA insiders said Musk’s threat ‘crossed a line,’ invoking memories of the 2018 episode when Musk smoked marijuana during a podcast interview, which prompted NASA to launch a safety investigation into SpaceX.

The clash was also inflamed by the White House’s decision to abruptly withdraw Jared Isaacman’s nomination as NASA Administrator.

Isaacman, closely aligned with Musk, had twice flown to space aboard SpaceX vehicles.

In the aftermath, government officials reached out to Jeff Bezos’s Blue Origin, RocketLab, and Stoke Space, querying when their rockets might be ready to shoulder critical missions.

Fatih Ozmen, CEO of Sierra Space, which is developing the Dream Chaser spaceplane, confirmed that NASA was ‘working closely’ with his company stating, ‘NASA mentioned to us that they want diversity and do not want to rely on a single provider.’

For some insiders, it wasn’t hard to connect the dots: Bezos, the founder of Blue Origin, has long been a rival to Musk.

The fallout it appears to be having consequences for policy regarding the nation’s space program with Trump possibly preparing to back another billionaire in place of Musk

Earlier this year Jeff Bezos’ space venture Blue Origin has announced sweeping layoffs – axing a whopping 1,400 jobs – or 10 percent of its workforce

Earlier this year Jeff Bezos’ space venture Blue Origin has announced sweeping layoffs – axing a whopping 1,400 jobs – or 10 percent of its workforce

Now, with the Biden-era antagonism between Trump and Bezos thawing, some see a political recalibration.

Bezos’ Blue Origin has lagged behind SpaceX for years, but its New Glenn rocket is finally gaining traction, albeit slowly.

The Pentagon’s recent ‘lanes’ strategy to diversify launch providers now looks prescient, with officials seeking to avoid ‘overreliance on any single provider or solution.’

A source familiar with the Defense Department’s strategy said the White House sees an opening to back Bezos as a counterweight to Musk’s volatility. ‘They want someone who’s predictable,’ the person said to The Post.

Even Congress appeared to be spooked by the behavior.

A key committee demanded updates on Boeing’s long-delayed Starliner capsule, which has struggled to match the reliability of Musk’s Dragon.

Boeing’s long-delayed Starliner capsule, pictured, has struggled to match the reliability of Musk’s Dragon

Indeed, just how reliant NASA were on SpaceX was illustrated last year when American astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams were left on the International Space Station by Boeing’s troubled Starliner capsule

NASA, under pressure, said Friday that Starliner’s next mission could come ‘early 2026,’ though it remains unclear whether it will fly astronauts or cargo only.

Indeed, just how reliant NASA were on SpaceX was illustrated last year when American astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams were left on the International Space Station by Boeing’s troubled Starliner capsule.

Wilmore and Williams had set off for an eight-day Starliner test flight that swelled into a nine-month stay in space

Boeing, which has taken $2 billion in charges on its Starliner development, faces a looming decision by NASA to refly the spacecraft uncrewed before it carries humans again.

Boeing spent $410 million to fly a similar uncrewed mission in 2022 after a 2019 testing failure.

Reflying Starliner uncrewed ‘seems like the logical thing to do,’ Williams said, drawing comparisons with Elon Musk’s SpaceX and Russian capsules that flew uncrewed missions before putting humans aboard. She and NASA are pushing for that outcome, Williams added.

‘I think that’s the correct path,’ said Williams, who is ‘hoping Boeing and NASA will decide on that same course of action’ soon.

Results from Starliner testing planned throughout the summer are expected to determine whether the spacecraft can fly humans on its next flight, NASA officials have said.

Todd Harrison, a defense analyst at the American Enterprise Institute, likened Musk’s social media post to ‘an embargo of the space station.’

‘Musk was saying he is going to cut NASA off from its own laboratory in space,’ he added.

Harrison also recalled Musk’s refusal to activate Starlink Internet for a Ukrainian military strike in 2022, a decision that raised alarms about national defense being at the mercy of a single CEO.

‘The nation’s missile defenses could be held hostage to the twittering whims of Elon Musk,’ Harrison warned.

Former NASA astronaut Garrett Reisman, who worked at SpaceX, voiced the fears of many in the astronaut corps: ‘When your hopes and dreams are tied up in this, you can’t help but think, “Oh my goodness, am I going to fly in space?”‘

Blue Origin’s New Glenn has flown once, and United Launch Alliance’s Vulcan, pictured, twice

A Blue Origin New Shepard rocket launches from Launch Site One in West Texas north of Van Horn

Meanwhile, Trump, who once championed Musk as a visionary, appears to be cooling.

His allies note that the president has no tolerance for perceived disloyalty and Musk’s defiance has not gone unnoticed.

Some aides believe Trump’s sharp pivot is personal as much as political.

RocketLab’s CEO Peter Beck had previously warned how Musk’s acquisition of Twitter, now rebranded as X, and his flirtation with politics could backfire.

‘It certainly makes people uncomfortable. At the end of the day, if you’re delivering important national security missions, the buck stops with the CEO,’ Beck said.

Pentagon officials remain wary, not least because few companies have rockets certified for critical national security missions.

Blue Origin’s New Glenn has flown once, and United Launch Alliance’s Vulcan only twice. RocketLab’s Neutron has yet to launch at all.

SpaceX’s Falcon 9 still dominates, launching with near clockwork precision.

But now, Trump’s administration appears ready to gamble on fostering competition, even if it means leaning more heavily on Bezos.

‘Sierra Space stands ready,’ Ozmen declared. Others in the sector are similarly jockeying for position, sensing that Musk’s once-unshakable grip may be loosening.

EXCLUSIVE Powerful White House insider’s illuminating view of President Trump and Elon Musk… as the titans go head-to-head in explosive feud

On the morning of September 11, 2001, I was a young political aide working in the West Wing of the White House.

Suddenly, I had a choice to make.

The terrible events of that day were already unfolding. Two aircraft had crashed into the World Trade Center North and South towers in New York City. Two other planes would soon crash into the Pentagon and a field in Western Pennsylvania.

Secret Service agents came into my small office – moments after the second plane hit the South Tower.

They were evacuating the buildings. I was given an ultimatum: Evacuate or stay, however if I stayed, they could not guarantee my safety.

I immediately stood up and walked towards the exit, but something inside me made me stop. I was overcome with the feeling that I was standing at a crossroads, and I pivoted. I turned on my heels and walked straight back into the White House.

That pivot changed the course of my career. I became employee number one in the newly formed White House Office of Homeland Security. That pivot that day led to years of learning and working at the highest level of national security in the United States.

Only years later did I realize that my White House ‘pivot’ wasn’t the only one that I’d made in my life.

The terrible events of that day were already unfolding. Two aircraft had crashed into the World Trade Center North and South towers in New York City . Two other planes would soon crash into the Pentagon and a field in Western Pennsylvania .

Some of my ‘pivots’ were intentional. Others were done on a whim. Some were successful and others not as much. Altogether, each one has determined my professional journey from rural Pennsylvania to Washington, DC, to today – an adviser to American’s most influential business and political leaders.

With untold amounts of appreciation and gratitude to many mentors and friends for teaching me how to manage life’s inevitable decision-points, I’ve set out to guide others by developing the ‘Power Pivot’ model. I’ve now taught this system to Fortune 500 CEOs, young professionals and even middle-aged moms and dads, who’ve decided that it’s time for change.

Now, I’ll teach it to you, by sharing case studies of three of the world’s most famous ‘Pivoters’.

Slow Pivot

One of the most impressive career transformations in modern American history, without a doubt, belongs to President Donald J. Trump.

As we all know, Trump followed in the footsteps of his father, the successful developer Fred Trump.

Donald J. Trump built the family business into a billion-dollar real estate empire in New York City and beyond. His not-so-secret secrets to success have been documented in multiple best-selling books about entrepreneurship and wealth building.

Less well-known, however, is how Trump steadily and deliberately pivoted to politics.

As early as the 1980s, he was vocal about his interest in government, even though he was seldom considered a serious candidate for any public office.

Trump outlined his views on various political issues, from critiquing consensus views on ‘free trade’ with CNN’s Larry King in 1987 to arguing against unfettered illegal immigration on NBC’s ‘Meet the Press’ in 1999.

Ashley Davis is a partner at S-3 Group, a founder partner of West Front Strategies LLC and former special assistant to the Director of Homeland Security

In 2004, Trump added ‘reality TV star’ to his resume with the hit NBC show ‘The Apprentice.’ The program, which also featured his daughter Ivanka Trump, gave us his iconic tag line, ‘You’re fired!’

Trump’s foray into media followed the example of another famous Republican politician, who honed his communication skills in the entertainment industry: Ronald Reagan.

Over his adult lifetime, Trump has demonstrated an interest in politics, articulated a set for principles on which to campaign, and developed the skills to communicate his ideas to the masses.

In my Power Pivot model, I layout the tools of how to implement a strategy over time to achieve your goal – and how intentional planning and intentional purpose lead to intentional change.

At 40 years old, I decided I wanted to sit on corporate boards. To accomplish this objective, I put in place an intentional plan that took nearly three years and included enrolling in business school and networking with purpose. The plan led to success.

But not every ‘pivot,’ however, will be successful. Nor will one land you the gig as leader of the free world. Learning from failures is invaluable and the key is when and how to pivot.

The Backtrack

Elon Musk is another world-renown entrepreneur, who has attempted a pivot into politics.

Of course, Elon is in a category of his own when it comes to innovation and business success. He has created and managed global industrial corporations that have become iconic brands from X, Tesla, and SpaceX, a venture that will likely put humans on Mars.

Though after President Trump gave him the top job at the Department of Government Efficiency, Elon was unable to capture the hearts and minds of Democrats, independents and even some Republicans. Furthermore, his businesses have suffered to varying degrees from the negative blowback.

Indeed, while polls in March showed that one-third of voters believed that DOGE’s work was necessary, nearly three in ten thought that it needed to be done more methodically. Another one-third said that it had been reckless.

Last Friday, President Trump graciously received Elon in the Oval Office, marking the end of his day-to-day oversight of DOGE and to thank him for his involvement to date. Elon, who was a special designated employee, which enabled him to stay in the top role at DOGE for 130 days, will now return to his day jobs, if you will.

I’m all too familiar with the predicament Elon faced. He saw an opportunity to apply his unique skills to a major problem that needed solving – the reform of a bloated federal government.

Elon is in a category of his own when it comes to innovation and business success. He has created and managed global industrial corporations that have become iconic brands from X, Tesla, and SpaceX, a venture that will likely put humans on Mars.

But there’s wisdom in knowing when not to pivot or pivot back if something is not playing out as you envisioned it. Elon realized he couldn’t effectively lead DOGE, while also leading his global businesses, in part because of the damage the political backlash was causing him.

I knew I always wanted to be a CEO or be my own boss. After the White House, I joined a law firm, where I spent nearly 13 years growing and ultimately leading their Government Relations arm. I’m daily thankful for the trust, opportunity, and experiences they gave me (especially as someone who is not a lawyer). I appreciate how I grew professional while I was there.

But at year 10, I was getting antsy and wanted to explore new opportunities. I would say I had a chip on my shoulder that I could do anything. I started putting a plan in place to branch off, but it was a little too early. I quickly realized that I didn’t yet have the credibility necessary for my own venture.

So, I identified other areas I needed to strengthen and over the following three years, I sought out opportunities to grow professionally. I was also simultaneously laying the groundwork to eventually achieve my goal.

Resilience – the ability to rebound from setback to success – is key to a ‘Power Pivot.’

Time will tell if Elon has a future in the political arena. He has demonstrated one notable and necessary political strength: the ability to backtrack. And that is perhaps something that others can learn from… at the very least, politics is a dog-eat-dog world no matter what the intentions.

Directionless Pivot

On February 18, 2021, Buckingham Palace announced that ‘The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have confirmed to Her Majesty The Queen that they will not be returning as working members of The Royal Family.’

Regardless of your opinion of Meghan and Prince Harry’s decision to leave the Royal Family, more than four years after their ‘pivot,’ it seems to be that they have fallen short of what they would have hoped to achieve.

Of note with some of Meghan’s endeavors, Spotify canceled her podcast ‘Archetypes’ after one season. A second similar venture, ‘Confessions of a Female Founder,’ which debuted this year, appears to be struggling to gain traction with audiences.

On February 18, 2021, Buckingham Palace announced that ‘The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have confirmed to Her Majesty The Queen that they will not be returning as working members of The Royal Family.’

‘With Love, Meghan’ – the Netflix series centered around Meghan’s homemaking and lifestyle tips, is seen by some as being unrelatable and out of touch. The future of her food brand ‘As Ever,’ is also uncertain as the Duchess said she’s unlikely to restock some of her signature products.

I give full credit and laud both Meghan and Prince Harry for taking such big chances after deciding that they had to make a change. They knew they had to pivot and did so boldly. They unfortunately failed to recognize, in my mind, a key element of the ‘Power Pivot’, intentional purpose.

Before a pivot, it’s necessary to do market analysis to determine what you can offer that will differentiate yourself from the competition is essential. They may have benefited from a deeper look into their intentions and the impact that their pivot would have on their family, their businesses and their reputations.

If they applied my Power Pivot model to these efforts, Meghan would have had better insight into the need to be more certain of her audience.

No one, including me, should pretend to imagine the pressure Meghan and Prince Harry faced as working Royals. But I look at this from a business perspective, a more intentional plan was needed.

All of these hard learned lessons and more are contained in the ‘Power Pivot,’ and I can’t wait to educate others about them.

Ashley Davis is a partner at S-3 Group, a founder partner of West Front Strategies LLC and former special assistant to the Director of Homeland Security