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As evidenced all over the upfront marketplace, which is wrapping up in entirety either this week or next, sports was the main attraction for any network lucky enough to have it to sell, and a strong driver of advertiser dollars from media agencies looking to place their clients in content that delivers audiences.

Any seller with linear TV inventory needed to use sports to lead the way in pulling in dollars, but they’re feeling the heat from streaming, which has secured a far greater amount of sports rights than even two years ago.

Within sports, undeniably women’s sports continues to attract more eyeballs and ad dollars, having come into its own in the last two years thanks to women’s college hoops, the WNBA and women’s soccer. But other secondary sports have also found new value in the rush to grab rights, from golf to Formula 1, and from tennis to soccer.

In the thick of this activity — but coming at it with a historical perspective — are David Levy and Chris Weil, the two co-heads of Horizon Sports & Experiences, a unit of Horizon Media. Levy, the former head of ad sales at Turner (who oversaw sales of the NBA and other major sports), knows the sports marketplace cold, while Weil, the former CEO of Momentum Worldwide, brings knowledge of the entertainment world that informs the “Experiences” side of the company.

The two discussed today’s marketplace as well as the opportunities they are creating to attract sponsors and enable newer leagues to get off the ground. The following has been edited for clarity and space.

Why was sports so important in this year’s upfront for both linear and streaming?

Levy: Sports not only is the content that is actually keeping linear afloat these days, but I also think it’s key to to the streamers and where the streamers are heading in the sense that it’s helping them to acquire new subscribers. It’s also helping them to relieve churn, which is a big problem in the streaming business. When you subscribe to, let’s use NBA on Amazon that’s coming up this new season, you’re going to have six to eight months of content now that if you’re an NBA fan, you’re not going to unsubscribe.

The NBA is now on three different distribution partners, with Amazon, NBC and ESPN. ESPN is now moving and shifting into broadcast television, which I think will automatically have a ratings increase, which means more GRPs in the marketplace. Then there’s NFL, Christmas Day games and some other games that have been added. So I think with the incremental games, you’re going to see a lift both in CPM growth as well as just [dollar] volume growth.

What’s the risk of so much sports in the marketplace?

Levy: The only way that networks can make up for declining ratings and declining sub universes, is to add inventory. But if you add too much inventory, then you’re pushing away the consumer. It’s a double whammy, because obviously then ratings continue to decline as you continue to shift off to connected television. On the other hand, CTV is an area that I think advertisers are actually [heading to] because in connected television, you have a limited amount of advertising, commercial breaks and lengths. And it’s more targeted.

How does the Experiences part of this all fit in?

Weil: Live is where dollars are flowing, and in particular in sports. So how do we build an agency that can take advantage of the live space writ large — whether we own our own properties and create our own opportunities, or whether we represent properties and create revenue opportunities for them, or whether we represent brands in the live space so they maximize their value proposition? if you’re running a public company like I was, [you’re not allowed a big] risk profile. That’s why we started this, with the capital behind us, to be able to put ourselves in a risk position to create and own properties that have value. It’s not just what happens once — there’s a long term value proposition in everything that we create.

How do you know which properties to create or back?

Weil: Horizon Media has built a data spine that is phenomenal, that allows us to move from looking at properties and saying, ‘Oh the CEO is a golfer, let’s be in golf.’ We can now put an AI engine on top of this data spine that allows us to bring science to the brand side of the business, and also on the property side of the business. When we go out to develop a new property, we know that there’s going to be an audience there. We started [in 2023] with about 10 or 15 of us total, and we just hired our 91st person.

Live is the new digital, and you’re just going to see more and more money flowing to the live space, because it’s the only place you can find it aggregated and an engaged audience.

What areas are you looking at specifically?

Levy: We looked at five, of what I would say, are high-growth areas: women’s sports, pickleball, believe it or not, Formula 1 racing, soccer and golf. Those were our Fab Five. And we thought, there’s not a lot of people dominating in that space.

We were a little bit smart and a little bit lucky. We now have IP in Pickleball Slam — we just did our third pickleball slam this February. We’ve done three already in two and a half years, and working on our fourth as we speak. Very simply, it’s taking the best names in racket sports, putting them in a million dollar purse live on ESPN and owning the marks, the rights, the logos — it has been fantastic.

We did with the same thing with the Women’s Champions Classic [sponsored by Shark Beauty], to which we own, the marks, the rights, the logos. And with Fox Broadcasting we found a partner that would actually want the women’s content. We now have season two coming up with Iowa, Louisville, Tennessee, and [NCAA] national champion, UConn.

[Three-on-three WNBA player tournament] Unrivaled I think is the next big thing — it already had season one. And you know, [WNBA star] Caitlin Clark didn’t even play in that league, and it was hugely successful.

Weil: Whether it’s over a cocktail or a cup of coffee when we decide to go forward with these ideas, we’ve got to be 100% committed. Which means that if we don’t raise the money in sponsorship or media rights or ticket sales, that we also have to be the ones that are willing to take the loss.